“Who even is this guy?” is one of the kinder replies that Canadian singer-songwriter Donovan Woods gets in response to his annual ranking of the Great Lakes every April.
It’s a fair question—is Donovan more qualified than you or I to rank the Great Lakes? He doesn’t claim to be (although he did grow up in Sarnia, Ont., he’s spent his career touring around Canada and the U.S. and—most importantly—he swam in all five lakes last summer).
So where do the Great Lakes stack up in 2024?
If you posted your own ranking on Twitter, chances are it wouldn’t stoke the fires of controversy as much as Donovan has in the last five years.
So what makes Donovan’s ranking so prolific? Two years ago, we chatted with Donovan, who talked us through his process. He took our call again this year to reflect on the 2024 ranking, his Lake Huron bias, and people yelling at him in public. Oh, and now he has t-shirts.
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Alysha Vandertogt (AV): Donovan! It’s Great Lakes ranking time again, we’re back!
Donovan Woods (DW): It’s here again, can you believe it? There is some movement this year.
AV: That’s part of the reason why I wanted to get you in touch with you again. I noticed last year already there was some movement, and I wondered what had happened in the meantime.
DW: Yeah, last year Lake Ontario jumped up to number three ahead of Michigan, but this year it’s back down to number four, sadly.
AV: Was there anything that caused Ontario to take a dive or for Michigan to jump ahead?
DW: I spent a lot of quality time on Lake Ontario that year and had a lot of conversations about it. I had one trip to Sandbanks Provincial Park, that park is beautiful. I really felt like it was moving up last year. But Michigan had a resurgence this year. It was in the news a lot, and I had some great interactions who love and live on Lake Michigan. I also spent quite a bit of time in Chicago. I think Lake Michigan is having a great year. It’s gonna be hard for Canadians to accept it, but it deserves to be in the top three.
AV: The American-sounding name can really put people off.
DW: We can’t think that way. That’s not fair.
AV: Tell me a bit about what factors you considered for the ranking this year.
DW: So much of what I consider is anecdotal and based on conversations I’ve had with people who also love the lakes. I met a lady at a show in Atlanta recently who told me a long story about how she grew up at her grandfather’s cottage on Lake Erie. And she didn’t even know that I rank the Great Lakes at all. I told her to look it up and see how she felt about it. I haven’t heard back from her yet.
But that’s the type of stuff I take in, and I try to feel what they’re saying and really appreciate the lake the way they do.
AV: So, the lore of the lake can come into play.
DW: Yes, the lore, that’s right. It’s an intangible, zeitgeisty feeling I have that I try and stay in tune with. To me, that’s having as many conversations about the lakes as I can. When somebody is really advocating for their lake without knowing that I’m the foremost Great Lakes ranker, it’s always an interesting conversation. They’re telling me the plain truth of their experience with the lake. But a lot of the time, it’s just people yelling at me.
AV: That’s so interesting. I see a lot of what we do at Cottage Life in that dynamic. I often have those conversations when I call someone up to talk to them about their cottage. They’re usually very earnest about their lake. I always come away feeling nice after hearing people reflect on the time they’ve spent in these places.
DW: Ultimately, it reminds you that not everybody has a piece of land that’s in their family. It’s a true privilege. And it give us a window into why ancient people felt so indebted and in love with the land. In modernity, we don’t have much of a window into that, but listening to someone explain about their grandfather’s cottage, you’re like, “Oh yeah, this person loves this little piece of land.” Every little inlet, every little rocky area, and to reflect on that is an interesting thing.
AV: I feel like this is a little bit of a shift since the last time we talked! You were resistant to what other people had to say, if I recall.
DW: Well, let me be clear, I listen to their stories, I take them in, I feel what they feel, but I’m not thinking about their emotions or their faces when I’m making my ranking. I love to hear people’s stories, but ultimately, I’m my own ranker. One story isn’t going to move me…well, you never know.
AV: Do you find people talk to you about the lakes fairly often in the same way they would about your music?
DW: When people approach me about in public, mostly in Canada, it’s normally to yell at me. And they’re mostly mad that Lake Superior isn’t number one, which is a very silly thing. Everyone says, “The name is Superior.” I’m so tired of that joke.
AV: We’ve got to think more critically than that.
DW: Yes, can our thinking be more involved than that? Of course it’s called Lake Superior, it’s called that because it’s the northern most lake. The people naming the lakes didn’t say that this is the best one!
AV: Last time we talked, you mentioned that things you see in movies or on TV shows can affect the way you feel about a particular lake. Was there anything that you watched this year that stood out?
DW: There wasn’t really anything that fit that category this time. I did think of Gordon Lightfoot’s passing and what he meant to Lake Superior, but it wasn’t a big part of my decision making this year.
AV: You mentioned swimming conditions being a big factor in the past. Is that still true?
DW: Yeah. The feeling in my body about the lake included having swam in all five last year. I don’t like to be accused of not having experienced all the lakes. Every year, I try to get to all of them. My day at Sandbanks really stood out to me. Everyone had their tents up, they were making food, it was really, really lovely.
AV: So, Lake Huron still number one, and number one with a passion. Any thoughts on it?
DW: I just continue to love it. I love Bluepoint, Tobermory. I just think it is the Great Lake. That’s the one everybody knows the shape of. You know Lake Erie and Lake Ontario are those two little dribbles at the bottom. Lake Huron has that beautiful, hooked-hand grasping shape like it’s grabbing the thumb of Michigan. Lake Michigan is kind of dangly, Lake Superior has its own charms but it kind of looks like a wild attack animal. The restaurants on Lake Huron, it’s right in the middle… I think if everybody searched their hearts the way I have, they would come up with Lake Huron as the one.
AV: I hadn’t thought about the shapes before. I have to spend more time looking at map. I mean, no arguments from me, Lake Huron is my pick too. I might not be a very good journalist right now, not pushing back on it enough.
DW: That’s what your editors are going to say. You’re just cake-walking this guy.
AV: I know, didn’t ask the hard questions! But on this note, any words of consolation for the Lake Erie fans out there?
DW: No. I mean, it’s a tough sell. It hits multiple states: Ohio, a bit of Pennsylvania, New York, and some Michigan too, it’s a valuable lake, but because of that it’s become a little bit too commercial. It’s a business lake. It’s not a leisure lake. Maybe it is more on the Canadian side, but it’s going to be tough for Lake Erie to make any headway, I’ll tell ya.
AV: It’s gotta do a rebrand if it wants to be taken more seriously in the ranking.
DW: It’s going to have to do a heavy rebrand. Top to bottom.
AV: So, new to the ranking last year is this fundraising initiative you’ve started. Can you tell me about that?
DW: Yeah, so we sold t-shirts and one dollar from the proceeds went to Freshwater Future Canada. There are two new t-shirts this year and we’ll send one dollar from each shirt sold to the Lake Erie Foundation. The lake that needs it the most.
AV: That’s quite funny. Here you go, Lake Erie, you need the help.
DW: I always imagine the people with the t-shirts being in line for ice cream in cottage country and getting into a heated argument about the rankings and people saying, “Who even is this guy?” Which is the most wonderful reaction to me of all. But I do feel that I’m right. Don’t we all have a right to rank the Great Lakes?
AV: Sure, I think they put that in the Constitution. It says right there at the bottom that everybody has the right to rank the Great Lakes.
DW: And they should. Everyone has the right and should rank the Great Lakes every year.
AV: Well, I’ll tell you, when we did the first story two years ago, our audience got fired up about it. You’ve really got a beat on something here.
DW: If the internet has taught us anything, it’s that we really love to argue.
AV: It’s actually a comment on society at the moment.
DW: Yeah, and to have something that’s pretty innocuous to argue about is a nice change, you know? But I don’t usually reply online. And I think not replying is so wonderfully interesting.
AV: I think it’s the key to happiness.
DW: It is the key to happiness.
AV: Well, I’m interested to see what people’s reponse is.
DW: It’s gonna be a big year, people are already upset.
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